James 24:7

Andrew, I really like your comments regarding praying the scripture.  That certainly would help keep us from the prayer olympics that John mentions.  I'm currently reading a book by D.A. Carson called A Call to Spiritual Reformation.  In that book Dr. Carson advocates precisely what you recommend by analyzing and contemplating some of Paul's prayers.  I find his style a bit stringent but do think he says some important things in that book.  For one thing he points to how far we have veered in our prayers toward the trivial and offers Paul's prayers as outstanding models to emulate.

While I appreciate Dr.  Carlson's call (and yours as well) I wonder where such prayer puts beginners.  i.e. is there a certain level of theological sophistication to which one must aspire before one can be said to be truly praying.

I am a fan of Anne Lamott's comment that her favorite prayers are "Help!" and "Thank you."

Andrew you might be interested to know that the aforementioned Mr. Crosby is an old ESR boy like you. :0)

I think many folks have heard of praying the psalms, and to do so is a beautiful thing. The psalms have always been the church's prayer/worship book. Perhaps if we are to pray from the psalms, a book that seemingly has all the bases covered in terms of life experiences, we might not have to worry so much about the "praying churches' john crosby bemoans above.

Recently, too, I've "discovered" the practice of praying the Gospels as well. That is, like the psalms, the Gospels have a didactic character in terms of prayer. As the Our Father teaches us to prayer for the coming of the Kingdom, is it not possible that the entirety of the Gospel texts can teach us something about more fully praying for that coming? For instance, we see throughout the Gospel According to Mark a stream of events in which the disciples just don't get it; they see Christ performing miracles, they hear him teaching, and yet they fall asleep in the garden, even after he directly tells them to stay awake. Can not this teach us how to pray? Should we not respond in prayer, asking that we would not fall into the same ways as the disciples? Or can we not pray the parables, that we, like the mustard seed, might grow into great shrubs that give shelter to the people around us?

I would not suggest that this is some sort of "program" for prayer. It is simply one way to respond to the Gospels. Yet, one thing that it will do is make the prayer reflect deeply upon themselves; it's dangerous, because we will see just how short we fall. Further, thought I personally have not engaged in this, could we not also pray the Epistles, even the Old Testament? We should probably start with the psalms and the Gospels, but if the Scripture is God-breathed, that is, life-giving and inspiring (I'm not referring here to infallibility; such a doctrine might actually make it impossible to pray the Scripture) should we not be able to hope that it will not guide us in our prayer life, even as the church? The Spirit is alive and moves us through the Scripture. We might be inspired to pray "new" prayers, but those prayers are not likely to be competitive like the prayers john crosby mentions. They won't likely be so caught up in individual identities for they will instead be caught up in a tradition much bigger than the individual who is entering into it.
w. andrew gibbens

Thanks for your thoughts John.  I think that when I posed that question in that way I was thinking about what churches are known for nowadays.  Very often it seems they are known by their size (as in "mega") or by their level of activity (as in "dynamic")   I do know one mega-church that is known for their diversity and for their nationally-recognized marketing campaign.  (hmmm...)

Another way I was thinking about this was in terms of how the church is to be distinguished from the larger culture.   Seems to me that it's hard to tell us Christians from most other "good, moral folks" in our society.  Maybe "prayer" is not the measure of such distinction but perhaps it could be one.  I suspect "quality of life" in terms of how well our lives point beyond us to the God whom we worship is a better one but I'm not sure how we get there apart from prayer.  (As it has been said, "We are to display a quality of life that cannot be understood apart from the God we worship."  And, "our prayers implicate us." )

I am aware of the kind of praying you encountered- that breathless, competitive praying that is so often about performance than prayer.   I certainly was not thinking of that as the distinugishing mark.  Sadly, we have often failed to hear the word of Christ on that and think we will be heard for our much (and highly impassioned) speaking.

Having said all of that, I would suggest that praying- well understood and well-practiced- would be a good thing to be known for.  After all, how else will we become what we are called to be and how else will we know how to proceed apart from significant prayer on the part of us all together?

Thanks again for your comments.  Always good to hear from you.

Jim

Seems odd to me that you'd ask "What would a church be doing to 'become known' as a praying church?" rather than "What would a church be doing to 'be' a praying church?". In our culture most seem more interested in 'being known' for something than in 'being' that something. Seems like when a church becomes known for anything positive, we get excited about standardizing, packaging, and replicating just enough so that we can become known for it too.

I just visited a church 'known for prayer'. It was 3 of the longest hours of my life on my knees listening to one 'prayer warrior' after another try to 'out pray' their predecessors through volume, passion, duration, and an assortment of gutteral sounds and physical contortions. Heck, many of the 'prayers' spoke about God as if he were not even there. This church was proud of 'being known' as a praying church. And they were just as proud of their humility!?! There were enough concerns lifted up in prayer that no doubt some will have to turn out as 'answered prayers' and praises for the next show. When I got the chance to ask more about the life of the church, all I heard about was the frequency and attendance of these 'prayer services.' Surely 'being' a praying church would involve more than this.

I have traveled to a church 'known' for prayer for the last time. I'm hoping to stumble into a community of believers who genuinely and humbly seek to encounter God's presence on a daily basis. I'm confident such a community will celebrate and reflect his presence regardless or perhaps in spite of their circumstances. As I read scripture and consider the behavior of groups, I can't help but wonder if some form of trial or persecution is a prerequisite for becoming a real praying church. After all, seems like God's people most often strayed during the good times. I hope I'm wrong.